On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Dirk Pranke <dpranke at chromium.org> wrote:
>> As far as "outreach", in my own experience whenever I've offered feedback
>> directly to DOM API authors, I'm frequently met with responses such as
>> "that's not consistent with the platform [/end]".
>>
>>>
>>> 3) TC39 et al. need to give us a language where we can build sane DOM
>>> APIs without feeling like we need to change the language to do so :).
>>>
>>
>> Meanwhile, library authors have no trouble designing sane DOM APIs that
>> web developers enjoy using. The difference: library authors listen to their
>> users, DOM API authors do not.
>
> Right. This is close to what I was trying to say. TC39 (or at least the
> browser-based implementors who belong to it) has failed thus far to give us
> an environment where it's possible to use libraries trivially and with
> near-zero cost, so it's harder to take the stance that problems should be
> solved in libraries than it should be.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Is it just that JS doesn't
have a module system yet?  What else has TC39 failed to provide?

Also, by definition, there's nothing available to library authors that
isn't available to platform API authors. So I don't see how this is a
reason for the current designs of DOM APIs.

Sam

On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Dirk Pranke <dpranke at chromium.org> wrote:
>> As far as "outreach", in my own experience whenever I've offered feedback
>> directly to DOM API authors, I'm frequently met with responses such as
>> "that's not consistent with the platform [/end]".
>>
>>> 3) TC39 et al. need to give us a language where we can build sane DOM
>>> APIs without feeling like we need to change the language to do so :).
>>
>> Meanwhile, library authors have no trouble designing sane DOM APIs that
>> web developers enjoy using. The difference: library authors listen to their
>> users, DOM API authors do not.
>
> Right. This is close to what I was trying to say. TC39 (or at least the
> browser-based implementors who belong to it) has failed thus far to give us
> an environment where it's possible to use libraries trivially and with
> near-zero cost, so it's harder to take the stance that problems should be
> solved in libraries than it should be.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Is it just that JS doesn't
have a module system yet?  What else has TC39 failed to provide?

Also, by definition, there's nothing available to library authors that
isn't available to platform API authors. So I don't see how this is a
reason for the current designs of DOM APIs.