domenic at domenicdenicola.com (2013-09-08T00:56:01.437Z)
I get the point. Indeed. Modes are a kind of magic... Regarding the secondary reason: I don't understand the "difference" well, could you explain in detail? You know, all other languages that are dynamically typed and have generators, such as python, lua, and even JavaScript 1.8 don't distinguish two kinds of the functions. I guess this directly means that there isn't something different as you said (because they all have more or less made successful). And in my personal view, yield is something that can be generalized together with return, like - return: discards the succeeding partial continuation there - yield: preserve the succeeding partial continuation there It is very clear in a sense, I believe. So my guess is that the strangeness yields have is a mater of getting used to, and that it is much more natural to treat two of them as a same thing.
I get the point. Indeed. Modes are a kind of magic... Regarding the secondary reason: I don't understand the "difference" well, could you explain in detail? You know, all other languages that are dynamically typed and have generators, such as python, lua, and even JavaScript 1.8 don't distinguish two kinds of the functions. I guess this directly means that there isn't something different as you said (because they all have more or less made successful). And in my personal view, yield is something that can be generalized together with return, like - return: discards the succeeding partial continuation there - yield: preserve the succeeding partial continuation there It is very clear in a sense, I believe. So my guess is that the strangeness yields have is a mater of getting used to, and that it is much more natural to treat two of them as a same thing. 2013/9/1 Mark S. Miller <erights at google.com>: > On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Yuichi Nishiwaki > <yuichi.nishiwaki at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> OK, right. I understand my first propose does not work. :-| >> So one more question is how about making '*' optional in strict mode? >> (Should I separate the topic to another?) >> >> 2013/9/1 Brendan Eich <brendan at mozilla.com>: >> > Let's not go in circles -- the primary reason for function* is because >> > yield >> > is not reserved in JS and is used by web content as a plain identifier. >> > It >> > is a low-precedence unary prefix operator, so cannot be contextually >> > reserved by a grammatical restriction as "module" can. It needs opt-in >> > syntax. >> > >> > Separately, some on TC39 want a flag on the function, in the head >> > syntax, to >> > alert readers to the generator. That's a secondary reason, independent >> > and >> > not as strong in my view. > > > I am one of those on TC39 that want the visible flag. Since, in my view, the > only non-mistaken need to preserve sloppy mode is as an ES3 compatibility > mode and ES3 has no generators, I consider this flagging issue to be the > important one. Yes, you have to read the function to know *what* it > generates. But even before you've figured that out, your whole effort to > read the function is different once you know you're reading a generator > function. Better to know it early. > > Code is read much more than it is written -- at least code that matters. > > > >> >> > >> > There's nothing to "get" or "not get" about backward compatbility. It >> > just >> > "is". :-| >> > >> > /be >> > >> >> Yuichi Nishiwaki <mailto:yuichi.nishiwaki at gmail.com> >> >> August 31, 2013 12:55 PM >> >> >> >> I can't get the point, why you need to know if the function is a >> >> generator or not at a glance? >> >> >> >> 1. Forcing users to mark the function as a generator is only a >> >> duplication. It basically doesn't have any meaning other than >> >> double-checking, and fundamental risk for the unintentional creation >> >> is still not removed. >> >> 2. Even if you know the function is a generator in early, you still >> >> need to read the entire source code to get the information about what >> >> the generator yields and when it stops. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> es-discuss mailing list >> >> es-discuss at mozilla.org >> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> >> >> >> Oliver Hunt <mailto:oliver at apple.com> >> >> August 31, 2013 12:25 PM >> >> >> >> On Aug 31, 2013, at 12:15 PM, Yuichi >> >> Nishiwaki<yuichi.nishiwaki at gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi all, I just found a post that the current generator syntax >> >>> (function *) seems have decided in: >> >>> >> >>> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-July/015799.html >> >>> >> >>> According to the post, the biggest reason the star syntax is adopted >> >>> for now is that you cannot write empty generators with star-less >> >>> functions in a consistent simple way. But the situation has changed, >> >>> and in the current spec (rev 17) yield* is now capable of taking any >> >>> kind of iterator, so you can make empty generators just like >> >>> >> >>> ```js >> >>> function * () { >> >>> yield * []; >> >>> } >> >>> ``` >> >>> >> >>> This looks enough good and simple at least to me. And I wonder if even >> >>> now generators still need to be declared with 'star's. What are the >> >>> advantages of 'star'ed generators rather than 'star'-lesses? If not >> >>> exist, shouldn't it be removed (for the simplicity)? >> >>> >> >> >> >> The reason for the * is substantially (IIRC) to make it possible for an >> >> engine >> >> to help prevent developers from unintentionally creating a generator >> >> function, >> >> and to make it possible for someone attempting to use a function to >> >> identify immediately >> >> whether it is a generator or a regular function. >> >> >> >> --Oliver >> >> >> >>> Thank you. >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Yuichi Nishiwaki >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> es-discuss mailing list >> >>> es-discuss at mozilla.org >> >>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> es-discuss mailing list >> >> es-discuss at mozilla.org >> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> >> >> >> Yuichi Nishiwaki <mailto:yuichi.nishiwaki at gmail.com> >> >> August 31, 2013 12:15 PM >> >> >> >> Hi all, I just found a post that the current generator syntax >> >> (function *) seems have decided in: >> >> >> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2011-July/015799.html >> >> >> >> According to the post, the biggest reason the star syntax is adopted >> >> for now is that you cannot write empty generators with star-less >> >> functions in a consistent simple way. But the situation has changed, >> >> and in the current spec (rev 17) yield* is now capable of taking any >> >> kind of iterator, so you can make empty generators just like >> >> >> >> ```js >> >> function * () { >> >> yield * []; >> >> } >> >> ``` >> >> >> >> This looks enough good and simple at least to me. And I wonder if even >> >> now generators still need to be declared with 'star's. What are the >> >> advantages of 'star'ed generators rather than 'star'-lesses? If not >> >> exist, shouldn't it be removed (for the simplicity)? >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Yuichi Nishiwaki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> es-discuss mailing list >> >> es-discuss at mozilla.org >> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> es-discuss mailing list >> es-discuss at mozilla.org >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > > > > > -- > Cheers, > --MarkM