On Jun 15, 2014, at 11:45 PM, Tom Van Cutsem wrote:

> 2014-06-13 19:21 GMT+02:00 Allen Wirfs-Brock <allen at wirfs-brock.com>:
> Anotherconcern I have with @@new, it that it exposes two extension points, @@new and @@create, on very constructor.  I'm afraid that it wouldn't be very clear to most ES programmers when you should over-ride one or the other.
> 
> Smalltalk has both extension points (#new and #initialize). I think JS programmers could handle this just as well.
and #basicNew.  It seeded to me that many Smalltalk programmer were unclear about when to over-ride #new vs when to over-ride #basicNew. 
>  
> Finally, let's say that for ES6 we eliminate [[Construct]] without adding @@new. If after some experience we find that @@new is really needed we can easily add it in a backwards compatible manner.
> 
> By that time, the community will have developed its own set of work-arounds, as it always does.
> 
> In any case, I believe you're probably right that @@create + constructor invocation is sufficient for most use cases. The crucial step is that if the constructor returns an object, this is the object returned by |new C(...args)|. This way, the constructor can always return a cached object and ignore whatever dummy object was created by @@create. Correct?

right.

Allen
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On Jun 15, 2014, at 11:45 PM, Tom Van Cutsem wrote:

> Smalltalk has both extension points (#new and #initialize). I think JS programmers could handle this just as well.

and #basicNew.  It seeded to me that many Smalltalk programmer were unclear about when to over-ride #new vs when to over-ride #basicNew. 

> In any case, I believe you're probably right that @@create + constructor invocation is sufficient for most use cases. The crucial step is that if the constructor returns an object, this is the object returned by |new C(...args)|. This way, the constructor can always return a cached object and ignore whatever dummy object was created by @@create. Correct?

right.