How many ES5 environments are still in use today?

# /#!/JoePea (17 days ago)

I'm curious to know how many pure ES% environments (with or without non-standard features like proto, and without any ES6 features) are still being used in the wild.

Would this come down to a browser statistics lookup? I believe there are other projects that use ES, like Rhino, Espruino, etc. Do you know of some place to get such statistics besides for browsers?

# Andrea Giammarchi (17 days ago)

I guess when it comes to other projects Wikipedia Wikipedia should be enough:

FWIW I think only Chakra, SpiderMonkey, JavaScriptCore, Nashorn, QtScript (although, not standard at all), Duktape, Moddable (R.I.P. Kinoma), Espruino, MuJS (new to me!), and JerryScript are the actively used/developed/maintained, and the list misses GJS, but I guess that's because it's based on SpiderMonkey.

Purely ES5 start with IE9 on browser land, but includes IE11 too which is still quite popular.

Not fully ES2015 is Chrome 49 which is the latest Chrome version supported in both Windows XP and Vista and there are still users that won't let that old/cracked OS go, regardless all security issues they have.

Opera 36 is at the same state of Chrome 49, and things are pretty different on mobile too.

All phones from 2015 are stuck behind older Android versions or, even worst, Samsung Internet, like it is for the Galaxy A3 case which is still a pretty good looking phone.

However, Samsung Browser 4.0 is not too bad compared to IE11, as you can see in this gist:

Have I answered your question ?

# Isiah Meadows (17 days ago)

I think you forgot to include Rhino. There's still quite a few who haven't migrated over to Nashorn, since Rhino has a widely differing API. It's no longer as actively maintained, but it still has a substantial user base. (It's ES5 compatible, but has no ES6 features.)

Also, IIRC, Nashorn has made attempts to implement ES6, so I wouldn't consider it pure ES5 anymore.

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# J Decker (17 days ago)

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Andrea Giammarchi < andrea.giammarchi at> wrote:

I guess when it comes to other projects Wikipedia Wikipedia should be enough:

They're missing at least one... which looks like it is missing es6 features (as of aug last year anyway... still?)

# Michael J. Ryan (17 days ago)

I'd add in Adobe's ExtendScript variant as well, which is stuck at ES3, and in InDesign isn't even completely shimable (my suffering has been in InDesign lately).

Although, most who touch Adobe ExtendScript are well aware of its' limitations.

# Andrea Giammarchi (17 days ago)

fair enough, I've considered "pure ES%" every engine I've mentioned 'cause in a way ot another they are compatible with ES3, ES5, and "ES6" which is a well known acronym in the industry.

Rhino sounds like legacy these days, and so does anything else stuck at ES3 only.

FWIW I would never support anything stuck at ES3 for the simple reason we're talking 20 years ago specification (it wasn't that bad, it's just outdated now)

# Joe Eagar (16 days ago)

LibreJS? The FSF is seriously escalating the plugin/scripting issue?


# Michael J. Ryan (16 days ago)

LibreJS looks like a browser extension, not a JS engine...

Aside, wow, I'm in favor of open-source, but this one is pretty out there.

# Isiah Meadows (16 days ago)

Yeah, LibreJS is a browser extension, not a runtime. (There exist runtimes they support, e.g. SpiderMonkey.)

And I do agree the GNU people can be a bit out there. (I'm not convinced that's the worst I've seen from them - look at the Linux-libre stuff and some of the {L,}GPL political drama, especially with v3.)

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# Joe Eagar (16 days ago)

I remember dealing with this with Blender's scripting system. Way back in the beginning of the open-source era we had a FAQ item on our website saying users could make commercial plugins for Blender, only to discover that apparently the FSF disagrees. In the eyes of the FSF, plugins/scripts "form one program." If we had learned of this earlier on, we might have actually changed Blender's license to something other than GPLv2, but unfortunately it was too late for that.

# Wes Garland (15 days ago)

We still use ES5 for development, since our server-side platform (GPSEE) doesn't run on later SpiderMonkey (embedding API made massive changes a couple of years ago and we haven't had resources to update.....massive changes)

I am working closely with another company right now that uses NodeJS. It's nominally ES6, but ES6 modules are not available in typical deployments, which is a pretty major missing feature.