Wiki and drafts (was: Polyfill for Maps and Sets)
Cool, check this: esdiscuss/2013-January/028270 :)
That's not all of them, but I'll go through it all again for anything I missed (unless you want to list any here, which would be fantastic)
Cool, check this: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2013-January/028270.html :) That's not all of them, but I'll go through it all again for anything I missed (unless you want to list any here, which would be fantastic) Rick On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM, David Bruant <bruant.d at gmail.com> wrote: > Le 18/01/2013 18:58, Rick Waldron a écrit : > >> It doesn't seem reasonable to maintain two versions of the proposals as >> they become specifications. >> >> My first thought is that the simplest possible strategy is to update >> harmony proposal pages (on the wiki) with a line at the top that indicates >> that the proposal is now in the spec draft. This is low effort-cost to >> convey that everyone should be looking at the latest and greatest of each >> proposal as they become part of the ES6 draft revisions and progress >> towards finalization therein. >> > I fully agree. It'll bring more attention to what happens in the drafts > and will make more people to review them. > Also, if something in the harmony namespace is put on hold like > harmony:classes it should probably be downgraded to the strawman namespace. > > David > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/attachments/20130118/cb02ca8c/attachment.html>
I think part of the confusion is that, from what I understand, "harmony" refers to things that are agreed upon by all TC39 members, or at least were at one time. But this does not imply it being in ES6.
That is, much confusion I've seen on the internet stems from people assuming "harmony" means ES6, since for so long we were calling it "ECMAScript Harmony."
I'd suggest either downgrading non-ES6 proposals to strawman, or creating a new "es6" namespace and moving the relevant pages there. The former is probably very appropriate for things that were once harmonious, but now contentious or obsoleted by other features.
--
Of course, the actual solution for all this is for me to launch a bunch of pull requests against Dave's new wiki, giving it the same breadth and depth as the current one. Then we can point the internet to that as the authoritative source of information, with the current wiki used more as a scratchpad or historical archive. I'll try to re-shuffle my to-do list...
I think part of the confusion is that, from what I understand, "harmony" refers to things that are agreed upon by all TC39 members, or at least were at one time. But this does not imply it being in ES6. That is, much confusion I've seen on the internet stems from people assuming "harmony" means ES6, since for so long we were calling it "ECMAScript Harmony." I'd suggest either downgrading non-ES6 proposals to strawman, or creating a new "es6" namespace and moving the relevant pages there. The former is probably very appropriate for things that were once harmonious, but now contentious or obsoleted by other features. -- Of course, the actual solution for all this is for me to launch a bunch of pull requests against Dave's new wiki, giving it the same breadth and depth as the current one. Then we can point the internet to that as the authoritative source of information, with the current wiki used more as a scratchpad or historical archive. I'll try to re-shuffle my to-do list... ________________________________ From: es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org [es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org] on behalf of Rick Waldron [waldron.rick at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 13:20 To: David Bruant Cc: Brendan Eich; es-discuss Steen Subject: Re: Wiki and drafts (was: Polyfill for Maps and Sets) Cool, check this: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2013-January/028270.html :) That's not all of them, but I'll go through it all again for anything I missed (unless you want to list any here, which would be fantastic) Rick On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM, David Bruant <bruant.d at gmail.com<mailto:bruant.d at gmail.com>> wrote: Le 18/01/2013 18:58, Rick Waldron a écrit : It doesn't seem reasonable to maintain two versions of the proposals as they become specifications. My first thought is that the simplest possible strategy is to update harmony proposal pages (on the wiki) with a line at the top that indicates that the proposal is now in the spec draft. This is low effort-cost to convey that everyone should be looking at the latest and greatest of each proposal as they become part of the ES6 draft revisions and progress towards finalization therein. I fully agree. It'll bring more attention to what happens in the drafts and will make more people to review them. Also, if something in the harmony namespace is put on hold like harmony:classes it should probably be downgraded to the strawman namespace. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/attachments/20130118/345dce39/attachment.html>
My understanding is that "harmony" refers perpetually to ES-next, whatever that thing is at the time. Since ES6 now has a name and a (draft) spec, it no longer is harmony (it's ES6). The wiki doesn't reflect this, but this is what (I think) I have observed from what TC39 members have said.
My understanding is that "harmony" refers perpetually to ES-next, whatever that thing is at the time. Since ES6 now has a name and a (draft) spec, it no longer is harmony (it's ES6). The wiki doesn't reflect this, but this is what (I think) I have observed from what TC39 members have said. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Domenic Denicola < domenic at domenicdenicola.com> wrote: > I think part of the confusion is that, from what I understand, "harmony" > refers to things that are agreed upon by all TC39 members, or at least were > at one time. But this does *not* imply it being in ES6. > > That is, much confusion I've seen on the internet stems from people > assuming "harmony" means ES6, since for so long we were calling it > "ECMAScript Harmony." > > I'd suggest either downgrading non-ES6 proposals to strawman, or creating > a new "es6" namespace and moving the relevant pages there. The former is > probably very appropriate for things that were once harmonious, but now > contentious or obsoleted by other features. > > -- > > Of course, the actual solution for all this is for me to launch a bunch of > pull requests against Dave's new wiki, giving it the same breadth and depth > as the current one. Then we can point the internet to that as the > authoritative source of information, with the current wiki used more as a > scratchpad or historical archive. I'll try to re-shuffle my to-do list... > > ------------------------------ > *From:* es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org [es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org] > on behalf of Rick Waldron [waldron.rick at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, January 18, 2013 13:20 > *To:* David Bruant > *Cc:* Brendan Eich; es-discuss Steen > *Subject:* Re: Wiki and drafts (was: Polyfill for Maps and Sets) > > Cool, check this: > https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2013-January/028270.html :) > > That's not all of them, but I'll go through it all again for anything I > missed (unless you want to list any here, which would be fantastic) > > > Rick > > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM, David Bruant <bruant.d at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Le 18/01/2013 18:58, Rick Waldron a écrit : >> >>> It doesn't seem reasonable to maintain two versions of the proposals as >>> they become specifications. >>> >>> My first thought is that the simplest possible strategy is to update >>> harmony proposal pages (on the wiki) with a line at the top that indicates >>> that the proposal is now in the spec draft. This is low effort-cost to >>> convey that everyone should be looking at the latest and greatest of each >>> proposal as they become part of the ES6 draft revisions and progress >>> towards finalization therein. >>> >> I fully agree. It'll bring more attention to what happens in the drafts >> and will make more people to review them. >> Also, if something in the harmony namespace is put on hold like >> harmony:classes it should probably be downgraded to the strawman namespace. >> >> David >> > > > _______________________________________________ > es-discuss mailing list > es-discuss at mozilla.org > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/attachments/20130118/7684f760/attachment.html>
No. "Harmony" refers to the agreed post-ES5 trajectory of the language. It was part of the harmonious agreement to accept ES3.1 as ES5. ES6 and ES7 are both steps of ES-Harmony.
No. "Harmony" refers to the agreed post-ES5 trajectory of the language. It was part of the harmonious agreement to accept ES3.1 as ES5. ES6 and ES7 are both steps of ES-Harmony. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Brandon Benvie <brandon at brandonbenvie.com> wrote: > My understanding is that "harmony" refers perpetually to ES-next, whatever > that thing is at the time. Since ES6 now has a name and a (draft) spec, it > no longer is harmony (it's ES6). The wiki doesn't reflect this, but this is > what (I think) I have observed from what TC39 members have said. > > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Domenic Denicola > <domenic at domenicdenicola.com> wrote: >> >> I think part of the confusion is that, from what I understand, "harmony" >> refers to things that are agreed upon by all TC39 members, or at least were >> at one time. But this does not imply it being in ES6. >> >> That is, much confusion I've seen on the internet stems from people >> assuming "harmony" means ES6, since for so long we were calling it >> "ECMAScript Harmony." >> >> I'd suggest either downgrading non-ES6 proposals to strawman, or creating >> a new "es6" namespace and moving the relevant pages there. The former is >> probably very appropriate for things that were once harmonious, but now >> contentious or obsoleted by other features. >> >> -- >> >> Of course, the actual solution for all this is for me to launch a bunch of >> pull requests against Dave's new wiki, giving it the same breadth and depth >> as the current one. Then we can point the internet to that as the >> authoritative source of information, with the current wiki used more as a >> scratchpad or historical archive. I'll try to re-shuffle my to-do list... >> >> ________________________________ >> From: es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org [es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org] on >> behalf of Rick Waldron [waldron.rick at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 13:20 >> To: David Bruant >> Cc: Brendan Eich; es-discuss Steen >> Subject: Re: Wiki and drafts (was: Polyfill for Maps and Sets) >> >> Cool, check this: >> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2013-January/028270.html :) >> >> That's not all of them, but I'll go through it all again for anything I >> missed (unless you want to list any here, which would be fantastic) >> >> >> Rick >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM, David Bruant <bruant.d at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Le 18/01/2013 18:58, Rick Waldron a écrit : >>>> >>>> It doesn't seem reasonable to maintain two versions of the proposals as >>>> they become specifications. >>>> >>>> My first thought is that the simplest possible strategy is to update >>>> harmony proposal pages (on the wiki) with a line at the top that indicates >>>> that the proposal is now in the spec draft. This is low effort-cost to >>>> convey that everyone should be looking at the latest and greatest of each >>>> proposal as they become part of the ES6 draft revisions and progress towards >>>> finalization therein. >>> >>> I fully agree. It'll bring more attention to what happens in the drafts >>> and will make more people to review them. >>> Also, if something in the harmony namespace is put on hold like >>> harmony:classes it should probably be downgraded to the strawman namespace. >>> >>> David >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> es-discuss mailing list >> es-discuss at mozilla.org >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > es-discuss mailing list > es-discuss at mozilla.org > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > -- Cheers, --MarkM
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Mark S. Miller <erights at google.com> wrote:
No. "Harmony" refers to the agreed post-ES5 trajectory of the language. It was part of the harmonious agreement to accept ES3.1 as ES5. ES6 and ES7 are both steps of ES-Harmony.
I believe a good example is Object.observe, which is a "harmonious proposal" (accepted by all in the committee) that's on track for ES7, instead of ES6.
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Mark S. Miller <erights at google.com> wrote: > No. "Harmony" refers to the agreed post-ES5 trajectory of the > language. It was part of the harmonious agreement to accept ES3.1 as > ES5. ES6 and ES7 are both steps of ES-Harmony. > I believe a good example is Object.observe, which is a "harmonious proposal" (accepted by all in the committee) that's on track for ES7, instead of ES6. Rick > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Brandon Benvie > <brandon at brandonbenvie.com> wrote: > > My understanding is that "harmony" refers perpetually to ES-next, > whatever > > that thing is at the time. Since ES6 now has a name and a (draft) spec, > it > > no longer is harmony (it's ES6). The wiki doesn't reflect this, but this > is > > what (I think) I have observed from what TC39 members have said. > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Domenic Denicola > > <domenic at domenicdenicola.com> wrote: > >> > >> I think part of the confusion is that, from what I understand, "harmony" > >> refers to things that are agreed upon by all TC39 members, or at least > were > >> at one time. But this does not imply it being in ES6. > >> > >> That is, much confusion I've seen on the internet stems from people > >> assuming "harmony" means ES6, since for so long we were calling it > >> "ECMAScript Harmony." > >> > >> I'd suggest either downgrading non-ES6 proposals to strawman, or > creating > >> a new "es6" namespace and moving the relevant pages there. The former is > >> probably very appropriate for things that were once harmonious, but now > >> contentious or obsoleted by other features. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Of course, the actual solution for all this is for me to launch a bunch > of > >> pull requests against Dave's new wiki, giving it the same breadth and > depth > >> as the current one. Then we can point the internet to that as the > >> authoritative source of information, with the current wiki used more as > a > >> scratchpad or historical archive. I'll try to re-shuffle my to-do > list... > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org [es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org] > on > >> behalf of Rick Waldron [waldron.rick at gmail.com] > >> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 13:20 > >> To: David Bruant > >> Cc: Brendan Eich; es-discuss Steen > >> Subject: Re: Wiki and drafts (was: Polyfill for Maps and Sets) > >> > >> Cool, check this: > >> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2013-January/028270.html:) > >> > >> That's not all of them, but I'll go through it all again for anything I > >> missed (unless you want to list any here, which would be fantastic) > >> > >> > >> Rick > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM, David Bruant <bruant.d at gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Le 18/01/2013 18:58, Rick Waldron a écrit : > >>>> > >>>> It doesn't seem reasonable to maintain two versions of the proposals > as > >>>> they become specifications. > >>>> > >>>> My first thought is that the simplest possible strategy is to update > >>>> harmony proposal pages (on the wiki) with a line at the top that > indicates > >>>> that the proposal is now in the spec draft. This is low effort-cost to > >>>> convey that everyone should be looking at the latest and greatest of > each > >>>> proposal as they become part of the ES6 draft revisions and progress > towards > >>>> finalization therein. > >>> > >>> I fully agree. It'll bring more attention to what happens in the drafts > >>> and will make more people to review them. > >>> Also, if something in the harmony namespace is put on hold like > >>> harmony:classes it should probably be downgraded to the strawman > namespace. > >>> > >>> David > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> es-discuss mailing list > >> es-discuss at mozilla.org > >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > es-discuss mailing list > > es-discuss at mozilla.org > > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > > > > > > -- > Cheers, > --MarkM > _______________________________________________ > es-discuss mailing list > es-discuss at mozilla.org > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/attachments/20130118/4fa93d8f/attachment-0001.html>
Le 18/01/2013 18:58, Rick Waldron a écrit :
I fully agree. It'll bring more attention to what happens in the drafts and will make more people to review them. Also, if something in the harmony namespace is put on hold like harmony:classes it should probably be downgraded to the strawman namespace.